SciFrog
Feb 9, 05:35 PM
Was crunching for another team before. The stats from Berkley show the aggregate as do some tools like the FAH Wudget.
Monday, May 9, 2011
Goldfinger
Aug 31, 02:56 PM
Let's hope that those specs aren't the final ones. That they're just to clear inventory.
I'm hoping for Merom based mac minis.. Merom costs the same so why not ?
I'm hoping for Merom based mac minis.. Merom costs the same so why not ?
KilGil27
Sep 6, 07:08 PM
It costs me nothing to walk into town (about 10 minutes) or bike (5) and pick up a DVD at the municipal library for �1.50. Occasionally I'll copy it to my hard disk if I didn't have the time I thought I would have to watch it and watch it later, then delete it.
Unlike music, you rarely watch a movie twice. Why buy or store these on your hard disk for longer than it takes to view it?
I've not bought a movie since 1995 on VHS. It's was just kind of silly having them litter up your shelves then and your hard disk now.
you don't watch movies more than twice? I feel bad for you...
Unlike music, you rarely watch a movie twice. Why buy or store these on your hard disk for longer than it takes to view it?
I've not bought a movie since 1995 on VHS. It's was just kind of silly having them litter up your shelves then and your hard disk now.
you don't watch movies more than twice? I feel bad for you...
iW00t
Jan 7, 12:45 AM
But the screen on the 17in MBP (1680x1050) by definition can't do HD (1920x1080). I don't care how well it can scale down, scaling down is not playing at true native resolution, and with most new content heading toward 1080i (and eventually 1080p), getting anything less than that now is just heading toward a dead end media wise IMO.
Why do you need HD on such a small device?
People have been watching TV on 640*480 28" TV sets for decades just fine. Likewise your Macbook Pro at 17" is doing as good as it possibly can at 17 inches, not like that extra 30 pixels vertically will make some difference.
My main concern with the Macbook Pros getting higher resolution displays is that there may be a possibility that Apple will break away from the current crop of low quality grainy displays and drop something else better in. Perhaps when Leopard is released we may even get the option to BTO in a higher resolution display.
Why do you need HD on such a small device?
People have been watching TV on 640*480 28" TV sets for decades just fine. Likewise your Macbook Pro at 17" is doing as good as it possibly can at 17 inches, not like that extra 30 pixels vertically will make some difference.
My main concern with the Macbook Pros getting higher resolution displays is that there may be a possibility that Apple will break away from the current crop of low quality grainy displays and drop something else better in. Perhaps when Leopard is released we may even get the option to BTO in a higher resolution display.
Danksi
Dec 30, 12:30 AM
At lease out TV's aren't upside down :D :cool: ;)
.. it appears your keyboard layout is different though. :p
.. it appears your keyboard layout is different though. :p
hunkaburningluv
Mar 28, 06:28 AM
It is amazing how limited in vision some people are...
Seriously people stuck with this idea that the future of gaming is going to be non-portable systems with game controllers forever are going to be very disappointed in the future.
Ultimately gesture based movements and other mechanisms will be used for gaming, not a freaking glorified joystick. It is silly to believe otherwise.
Again people saying you couldn't play with a touchscreen device without looking at it have no imagination or understanding. Definately within two years you will be shown to be horribly wrong on this point.
You keep believing the future of gaming is going to remain in the hands of traditional 8 year console development cycles... It is not going to happen.
It would be like saying you can't play any real game on a console, you need a pc for it. I certainly can do much more in terms of controlling and playing a game on a computer than I can do with any console controller.
You really are deluded aren't you? You need to be REALISTIC about your expectations. You want to have a bet in this?
I'm calling BS right now - there will always be a place for pads/sticks/mouse/keyboard it gives a vastly better tactile experience than a touchscreen. Touch gaming will improve, I will agree, but the majority of core gamers won't be playing core games on the device.
Are you a gamer? Any gamer worth their salt is very much aware that the norm was a new gen every 5 years, not 8. But yeah, I'dsay we are probably looking at a 6/7 year cycle right now.
Anyhoo, I digress. I'm still calling BS. yeah, I'm sure mobile gaming will improve, but it' not going to replace consoles or PC's for core gamers.
I assume that's what you meant. Because we've seen touchscreen devices advance by leaps and bounds since June 2007. In two years' time it will very likely be an entirely new ballgame with such devices being a dominant force in tech, including gaming.
This little demo is just barely scratching the surface.
Really? Dominant as in more units out there or where it's a lead platform for development?
I mean, you could say that android has the mobile touch screen market zipped up, but we both know that's because there's so many different handset out there.... Yeah there will be a load out there, but it will never be the main cash cow for games developers - the money is in consoles and to a much lesser extent now, PC gaming.
You're sure about that? Considering the next Xbox isn't due for release till about 2015, and the PS4 probably later, and I'm pretty sure those systems will ship with controllers. The Kinect being an optional extra.
And I seriously doubt the iPad will could be seen as a serious competitor to Games Consoles and PC gaming, in the same way my calculator is a competitor to my iPhone because it performs a same function, better than my iPhone does.
you think? I suspect we'll see an announcement next year and a release in 2013 actually for the 360, the PS4 will probably be 2015. The 'WIIHD" or whatever it' called might be announced this year.........
Seriously people stuck with this idea that the future of gaming is going to be non-portable systems with game controllers forever are going to be very disappointed in the future.
Ultimately gesture based movements and other mechanisms will be used for gaming, not a freaking glorified joystick. It is silly to believe otherwise.
Again people saying you couldn't play with a touchscreen device without looking at it have no imagination or understanding. Definately within two years you will be shown to be horribly wrong on this point.
You keep believing the future of gaming is going to remain in the hands of traditional 8 year console development cycles... It is not going to happen.
It would be like saying you can't play any real game on a console, you need a pc for it. I certainly can do much more in terms of controlling and playing a game on a computer than I can do with any console controller.
You really are deluded aren't you? You need to be REALISTIC about your expectations. You want to have a bet in this?
I'm calling BS right now - there will always be a place for pads/sticks/mouse/keyboard it gives a vastly better tactile experience than a touchscreen. Touch gaming will improve, I will agree, but the majority of core gamers won't be playing core games on the device.
Are you a gamer? Any gamer worth their salt is very much aware that the norm was a new gen every 5 years, not 8. But yeah, I'dsay we are probably looking at a 6/7 year cycle right now.
Anyhoo, I digress. I'm still calling BS. yeah, I'm sure mobile gaming will improve, but it' not going to replace consoles or PC's for core gamers.
I assume that's what you meant. Because we've seen touchscreen devices advance by leaps and bounds since June 2007. In two years' time it will very likely be an entirely new ballgame with such devices being a dominant force in tech, including gaming.
This little demo is just barely scratching the surface.
Really? Dominant as in more units out there or where it's a lead platform for development?
I mean, you could say that android has the mobile touch screen market zipped up, but we both know that's because there's so many different handset out there.... Yeah there will be a load out there, but it will never be the main cash cow for games developers - the money is in consoles and to a much lesser extent now, PC gaming.
You're sure about that? Considering the next Xbox isn't due for release till about 2015, and the PS4 probably later, and I'm pretty sure those systems will ship with controllers. The Kinect being an optional extra.
And I seriously doubt the iPad will could be seen as a serious competitor to Games Consoles and PC gaming, in the same way my calculator is a competitor to my iPhone because it performs a same function, better than my iPhone does.
you think? I suspect we'll see an announcement next year and a release in 2013 actually for the 360, the PS4 will probably be 2015. The 'WIIHD" or whatever it' called might be announced this year.........
Mainyehc
Nov 28, 03:50 PM
I agree with almost everything you wrote (you're a pretty smart guy!) but offer two comments:
1 - We don't know there isn't a Jobs waiting in the wings. We also don't know there isn't a Jobs in the #2 spot at some Fortune 50 company who could be in a MS executive suite in 3 years.
2 - MS being "too proud" is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I write about not being able to predict the post-Bill future. He is certainly too proud but who knows about Bill 2.0?
You make the point about the rank-and-file being mostly very talented and I agree. If MS gets executives who stay out of the way who knows what Zune 3.0 will be like?
Why, thanks! English isn't even my native language... And I'm not a long-time Apple user either. But I suppose three years worth of using Macs and hangin' around MacRumors:Forums also helped, as did reading a lot (well, way too much, really) about the computer industry's history! :p
Your points are, of course, fairly good. But this is just a clear example of me playing the role of the "ominous wishful thinker", and you that of the "devil's advocate". So I surely hope I'm right in my predictions; even though I know competition is a good thing, arguing that competition from Microsoft could possibly be a "good" thing is nothing short of an oxymoron (I'm not saying that's your opinion. The problem is, if it's you who turns out to be right, that's what the Zune will become: competition! :p ). Let's hope that some worthy competitors, both on the cosumer electronics and the PC hardware/software/operating systems, OTHER than Microsoft emerge to give Apple some eventually needed "kicks in the butt", so they don't become lazy. ;)
'Course, if Microsoft could, hypothetically, stop being such an evil company, I'd certainly overlook their shady past and could even, Jobs forbid!, use some of their products (provided they'd be up to my typical Mac User's standards :rolleyes: ). :D
1 - We don't know there isn't a Jobs waiting in the wings. We also don't know there isn't a Jobs in the #2 spot at some Fortune 50 company who could be in a MS executive suite in 3 years.
2 - MS being "too proud" is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I write about not being able to predict the post-Bill future. He is certainly too proud but who knows about Bill 2.0?
You make the point about the rank-and-file being mostly very talented and I agree. If MS gets executives who stay out of the way who knows what Zune 3.0 will be like?
Why, thanks! English isn't even my native language... And I'm not a long-time Apple user either. But I suppose three years worth of using Macs and hangin' around MacRumors:Forums also helped, as did reading a lot (well, way too much, really) about the computer industry's history! :p
Your points are, of course, fairly good. But this is just a clear example of me playing the role of the "ominous wishful thinker", and you that of the "devil's advocate". So I surely hope I'm right in my predictions; even though I know competition is a good thing, arguing that competition from Microsoft could possibly be a "good" thing is nothing short of an oxymoron (I'm not saying that's your opinion. The problem is, if it's you who turns out to be right, that's what the Zune will become: competition! :p ). Let's hope that some worthy competitors, both on the cosumer electronics and the PC hardware/software/operating systems, OTHER than Microsoft emerge to give Apple some eventually needed "kicks in the butt", so they don't become lazy. ;)
'Course, if Microsoft could, hypothetically, stop being such an evil company, I'd certainly overlook their shady past and could even, Jobs forbid!, use some of their products (provided they'd be up to my typical Mac User's standards :rolleyes: ). :D
TangoCharlie
Aug 30, 03:50 AM
Those speeds line up exactly with the T5000 series of Merom.
Intel T2400 Core Duo Yonah 1.83GHz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2400
Intel T2300 Core Duo Yonah 1.66Ghz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2300
Looks like the CPU speeds match onto Yonah parts too :rolleyes:
Intel T2400 Core Duo Yonah 1.83GHz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2400
Intel T2300 Core Duo Yonah 1.66Ghz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2300
Looks like the CPU speeds match onto Yonah parts too :rolleyes:
MacRumors
May 2, 04:16 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/02/mac-os-x-lion-to-bring-ios-like-uninstall-process-for-mac-app-store-apps/)
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/05/02/171331-lion_delete_evernote.jpg
2011 Lexus RX 450h
Lexus RX 450H Hybrid SUV
The Lexus RX 450h features a
35d vs 2010 Lexus RX 450h
2011 Lexus RX 450h SE-I
Info, Lexus RX 450h SE-I
2011 Lexus RX 450h announced
2010 Lexus RX 450h
2011 Lexus RX 450h
LEXUS LUXURY – Lexus RX 450h
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/05/02/171331-lion_delete_evernote.jpg
MattyMac
Aug 6, 09:12 PM
It's like Christmas Eve:D
spencers
Jan 7, 10:28 AM
I wasn't blaming BMW. Just stating, but it looks like it was just the spark plugs going bad as when my brother replaced them the engine smoothed back out.
They needed replacement because they were probably on their last leg before putting in the wrong fuel. :p
To be fair, the only things that have actually failed on me with my E46 are:
-cooling system (expansion tank burst; it was the OE tank, and the car was at 200k) - $300 DIY repair (did the entire cooling system overhaul).
-final stage resistor (a/c / heater vents would not turn on, it was the OE part, and the car was at 200k) - $90 DIY repair.
Everything else has been maintenance. Oil, filters, spark plugs, gaskets, etc. If I have learned anything from the failures mentioned above, it's that these cars will run a very, very long time, even on ORIGINAL parts. It still baffles me that the expansion tank held up so long! Just do the work yourself, and you'll save a bundle. I've also owned an E30 and E36, so I've been through the generations.
They needed replacement because they were probably on their last leg before putting in the wrong fuel. :p
To be fair, the only things that have actually failed on me with my E46 are:
-cooling system (expansion tank burst; it was the OE tank, and the car was at 200k) - $300 DIY repair (did the entire cooling system overhaul).
-final stage resistor (a/c / heater vents would not turn on, it was the OE part, and the car was at 200k) - $90 DIY repair.
Everything else has been maintenance. Oil, filters, spark plugs, gaskets, etc. If I have learned anything from the failures mentioned above, it's that these cars will run a very, very long time, even on ORIGINAL parts. It still baffles me that the expansion tank held up so long! Just do the work yourself, and you'll save a bundle. I've also owned an E30 and E36, so I've been through the generations.
narco
Aug 6, 09:06 PM
Hasta la Vista, Vista
classic!! I want to see a pic!
So do I. It should have a picture of the T-800 running Leopard next to it.
Fishes,
narco.
classic!! I want to see a pic!
So do I. It should have a picture of the T-800 running Leopard next to it.
Fishes,
narco.
iBorg20181
Oct 24, 01:35 AM
The current Napa64 platform (that is, Napa with Merom as the CPU) does support 64-bit instructions. It can't address more than 4 GiB of physical memory, but it can run the faster 64-bit instructions.
And that's exactly what I've been waiting for! I don't care about using more than 4GB ram (or 3.2GB as Applied Visual has pointed out), but the 64-bit capability of Merom MBPs will be, I believe, important within the next couple of years that I'll be using this new lappie!
:D
iBorg
And that's exactly what I've been waiting for! I don't care about using more than 4GB ram (or 3.2GB as Applied Visual has pointed out), but the 64-bit capability of Merom MBPs will be, I believe, important within the next couple of years that I'll be using this new lappie!
:D
iBorg
mozmac
Jul 14, 04:17 AM
ASIDE:
I used to do lots of work doing image analysis, and I wrote an application imaginitively called "Analysis". In Windows, when I had lots of versions of "Analysis" running, the names on the buttons on my task bar would get truncated. It made several people take a double-take when they saw all these buttons labeled Anal Anal Anal Anal Anal Anal Anal!!
Why did I mention that? Oh, yes, there's a reason they're called Analysts! :D
I appreciate your added humor. Thank you.
I used to do lots of work doing image analysis, and I wrote an application imaginitively called "Analysis". In Windows, when I had lots of versions of "Analysis" running, the names on the buttons on my task bar would get truncated. It made several people take a double-take when they saw all these buttons labeled Anal Anal Anal Anal Anal Anal Anal!!
Why did I mention that? Oh, yes, there's a reason they're called Analysts! :D
I appreciate your added humor. Thank you.
adhesiv
Jan 11, 05:38 PM
Because its not going to be identical.
Neither will have built in superdrive, but will have the same external model.
Pro machine will have additional stuff like backlit keyboard, FW800, graphics card. Probably be even smaller and lighter. Maybe have a touch screen.
They will be quite clearly different and $ differences as well.
Just like the "professional" iPods are all aluminium, and the "professional" iMac, not to mention the "professional" iPhone.
Apple is going Alumium across the product line, for environmental reasons. The MacBooks will be the last plastic Macs made.
Also, anyone who has paid any attention during physics will know that if you want to make a laptop thinner than the current MacBook, then plastic just won't cut it for build quality. You'll need a stronger material to get the strength.
while your argument is valid, those lines never had a PRO vs. non-PRO line like the notebook segment does. While it is possible that they may go aluminum across the board (makes sense with the aluminum features of the iphone and imac) they still need a way to differentiate their PRO line other than name badging and integrated graphics. this also doesn't take into effect the added cost of the aluminum materials that would cause a non-PRO line increase in cost. so i think this might debunk an all aluminum line.
btw, not everyone had to take physics.
Neither will have built in superdrive, but will have the same external model.
Pro machine will have additional stuff like backlit keyboard, FW800, graphics card. Probably be even smaller and lighter. Maybe have a touch screen.
They will be quite clearly different and $ differences as well.
Just like the "professional" iPods are all aluminium, and the "professional" iMac, not to mention the "professional" iPhone.
Apple is going Alumium across the product line, for environmental reasons. The MacBooks will be the last plastic Macs made.
Also, anyone who has paid any attention during physics will know that if you want to make a laptop thinner than the current MacBook, then plastic just won't cut it for build quality. You'll need a stronger material to get the strength.
while your argument is valid, those lines never had a PRO vs. non-PRO line like the notebook segment does. While it is possible that they may go aluminum across the board (makes sense with the aluminum features of the iphone and imac) they still need a way to differentiate their PRO line other than name badging and integrated graphics. this also doesn't take into effect the added cost of the aluminum materials that would cause a non-PRO line increase in cost. so i think this might debunk an all aluminum line.
btw, not everyone had to take physics.
haravikk
Jun 22, 02:49 PM
While it'd be kind of cool to have a touch-enabled iMac screen, the only people who will really benefit from this are museums that like to use iMacs as all-in-one systems for an interactive, but then they tend to just buy add-on touch sensors or those rollerball things instead.
BenRoethig
Aug 29, 09:08 AM
This is the lowest end machine Apple makes. Let's be realistic. This is a reasonable update for the base model. And it's probably being done in advance of a Core 2 Duo update to the iMac.
Yonah doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Merom is pin-compatible and costs exactly the same amount. Besides, it would be a PR boost for Apple to have the entire lineup 64-bit and "Leopard ready". The Mac Mini is going to use the 5000 series Meroms and the iMac is going to use the 7000s.
Yonah doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Merom is pin-compatible and costs exactly the same amount. Besides, it would be a PR boost for Apple to have the entire lineup 64-bit and "Leopard ready". The Mac Mini is going to use the 5000 series Meroms and the iMac is going to use the 7000s.
balamw
Sep 6, 07:03 PM
Conversely, I could see them offering different quality versions for those broadbandless people similar to different quality versions of trailers, so who knows. I'm just anxious to see what they'll be offering on the 12th. It's very exciting.
I agree on the excitement, and the potential for different quality options*, but I don't think even their current video offerings are attractive to anyone without broadband, since the typical 30 minute show would take ~4 hours to download. A 2 hour movie would then still take 16 hours to download on dial-up. I don't think so.
By comparison with a 3 Mbps pipe you should be able to download the same show in ~4 minutes or 16 minutes for the movie.
EDIT: * I wish they'd give us a lossless option for iTMS audio too.
B
I agree on the excitement, and the potential for different quality options*, but I don't think even their current video offerings are attractive to anyone without broadband, since the typical 30 minute show would take ~4 hours to download. A 2 hour movie would then still take 16 hours to download on dial-up. I don't think so.
By comparison with a 3 Mbps pipe you should be able to download the same show in ~4 minutes or 16 minutes for the movie.
EDIT: * I wish they'd give us a lossless option for iTMS audio too.
B
Demon Hunter
Nov 15, 03:31 PM
I guess this is fairly boring news for gamers, if Quake is any indication...
polsons
Jan 11, 07:20 AM
As a fellow Australian imac_japan i'll support your enthusiasm, but as one who is old enough to have actually witnessed the history of Apple I think you are about to be enormously disappointed
If indeed a headless Mac does materialize, it will not be the first to have come from Apple. Apple have tried this concept many times before and all attempts have failed miserably. Maybe a dual G5 Cube for the price of an eMac might have some success, but a miserably under specified G4 (as is being claimed) is DEAD even before it hits the stores.
True the end may be near for Apple's hardware (5 or 10 years so to speak), but MacOS will be around for as long as computers continue to be manufactured. Even the most pessimistic analyst will concede that MacOS X and Apple's apps on x86 would see Microsoft as the world's second largest software developer. And who really cares about the hardware. The best PC hardware is every bit as good as Apple's hardware....it's just that the software stinks.
Let's be honest here. Do we really want Mac OS X to become MS Windows? Yes, Windows has thousands of apps not available on Mac, but most are developed by egotistical script kiddies with absolutely no idea of what they are doing, and then trying to pass it off as the greatest app ever written solely because they coded it. The best Windows apps always have been and probably always will be available on Mac. But they are long established mature apps developed by long established developers. If you can't afford them, then buy a PC and be content with using script kiddie crap.
And therein lies the unique and most appealing aspect of Apple hardware. MORONS can't afford it. As long as Apple keeps developing MacOS X and morons are forced to buy Windows PC's, I'll remain very happy with the current situation as it stands. No $499 headless Mac and no Mac in every home for me thank you. As far as I am concerned, the last thing I want to see is a user base swarming with dickheads. Windows has already reached that plateau, and sadly Linux is running not that far behind.
If indeed a headless Mac does materialize, it will not be the first to have come from Apple. Apple have tried this concept many times before and all attempts have failed miserably. Maybe a dual G5 Cube for the price of an eMac might have some success, but a miserably under specified G4 (as is being claimed) is DEAD even before it hits the stores.
True the end may be near for Apple's hardware (5 or 10 years so to speak), but MacOS will be around for as long as computers continue to be manufactured. Even the most pessimistic analyst will concede that MacOS X and Apple's apps on x86 would see Microsoft as the world's second largest software developer. And who really cares about the hardware. The best PC hardware is every bit as good as Apple's hardware....it's just that the software stinks.
Let's be honest here. Do we really want Mac OS X to become MS Windows? Yes, Windows has thousands of apps not available on Mac, but most are developed by egotistical script kiddies with absolutely no idea of what they are doing, and then trying to pass it off as the greatest app ever written solely because they coded it. The best Windows apps always have been and probably always will be available on Mac. But they are long established mature apps developed by long established developers. If you can't afford them, then buy a PC and be content with using script kiddie crap.
And therein lies the unique and most appealing aspect of Apple hardware. MORONS can't afford it. As long as Apple keeps developing MacOS X and morons are forced to buy Windows PC's, I'll remain very happy with the current situation as it stands. No $499 headless Mac and no Mac in every home for me thank you. As far as I am concerned, the last thing I want to see is a user base swarming with dickheads. Windows has already reached that plateau, and sadly Linux is running not that far behind.
Sky Blue
Jan 11, 04:54 PM
Sounds like a shoe.
PlipPlop
Mar 25, 05:18 AM
Do the macpros have a powersuppy with about an extra 500w for a 6970? And the 8 pin and 6 pci-e power ports?
danielwsmithee
Nov 27, 02:49 PM
I just hope they adjust their prices while they are at it. I love the Apple monitors but they are overpriced. Go to CompUSA and you can find at least 4-5 20" wide-screen monitors from $250-$399. At $699 they are way out or touch with the rest of the market. I could see paying a $100 premium at $499 but not $300.
A 17" monitor would be nice to pair with a mini or even with 17" iMac to use as a dual monitor workstation.
A 17" monitor would be nice to pair with a mini or even with 17" iMac to use as a dual monitor workstation.
ingenious
Apr 5, 02:00 PM
Now that has to be the most double standard quote that I have ever read !!!
Apple had to expand beyond its computers to be profitable....If not for the Ipod - Apple wouldnt be making money.
Steve get Apple into gear man ! Drop prices - Take on the market...With good marketing , Apple will not cheapen..
excuse me, but WHAT WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN? JK! seriously tho, you should just do one of two things:
1)give up cuz ur obviously wrong and not gaining much support!
2)move to mars and live in your own little dream world where apple is dying.
apple did not have to create the ipod to stay profitable. they are debt free and have 5b in the bank. computers are making more the double what the ipod's making. c'mon man, do ur research! some mod should just delete this thread. it's pointless!
Apple had to expand beyond its computers to be profitable....If not for the Ipod - Apple wouldnt be making money.
Steve get Apple into gear man ! Drop prices - Take on the market...With good marketing , Apple will not cheapen..
excuse me, but WHAT WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN? JK! seriously tho, you should just do one of two things:
1)give up cuz ur obviously wrong and not gaining much support!
2)move to mars and live in your own little dream world where apple is dying.
apple did not have to create the ipod to stay profitable. they are debt free and have 5b in the bank. computers are making more the double what the ipod's making. c'mon man, do ur research! some mod should just delete this thread. it's pointless!
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